Do you think they will ever go back to the old formula?

[Soluna]

Mabi kinda lost its point when it became less about fighting tactics and more about stat/skill whoring. To me, anyway.

And I wouldn't blame any particular director for this. It's a flaw in Mabinogi's base design, as a result of the unorganized, or rather, non-existent skill set organization. Skill sprawl, if you will. They tried to reverse this fail with the restricted classes, but people raged, the devs caved and now we're back in square #1 of the problem. >_o

QFT. And this is probably the direction Mabinogi will continue to go.

So the more salient question is: Despite all those flaws in Mabinogi, why do you still play it?

That is only part of the problem. The main problem is the player's own mentality. Class system is a really poor way to take the game because it starts to limit down on the player's choices and this creates a set of its own problems, the most obvious being a generic MMO itself with class based jobs. They are handling it better now through the direction of Skill Specialization upon on the weapon you choose to use now, which in a way is a lot better than plain old class based systems. And Ironically, this type of usage is introduce from G1. I see in the future there will be more specialized skill for specialized weapons, such as Scythe limiting the usage of windmill, but giving you another skill to compensate for it.

As for dungeon, in the shorter period of time you probably would only see different levels added. As for new dungeons, probably have to look until the end of C4, and that's where the new things/system will start to flow in. As far as C4 is concerned, it is mostly cleaning up the messes left by C3's team in my opinion, that is to say they aren't making some messes themselves.

And a reason to play the game is simple, there are like no game like this. This is like a bastardized game encompassing a wide range of different other games, yea I said that. There is no limit to this game, and every new chapter the new team just give a certain finger to the previous team and start working on their new things. The more correct way of viewing is why not play a game that is flawed, but why do you want to play a game. I can choose to relax and just rent a farm and get gold, or I can go to a dungeon if I feel want to, it is to my liking. The main problem itself of this game is not the game, is the game's players. And boredom arise from one not being able to manage their own time and unfortunately most people can't manage their own time. Because this is what this game is about, being able to manage you freedom.

As for the stat grinding, I view it as human nature. Given the ability to be anything you can be, mostly likely humans will want to play role of being a GOD, that's the driving force behind it. I don't think is wrong, but I don't think it the right way to play the game. Personally, I think the NA player base community has a fundamental problem itself, which is why you won't see me in anywhere else but here +_+! I am your local sunshine! (well okay I lied a little, there is another place I go, but that place is pretty dead now).

[Armelle]

haha,Solar's always good at explaining things and yeah,mabis just one of those games.
too different to not enjoy.

[Soluna]

I know what you're saying, but you have to realize that if you've done the aforementioned skill/stat whoring, you'd be having no trouble with the new SMs and you wouldn't consider em hard at all. People solo a lot of that stuff with ease. It's just not pick-up-and-play like it was before. I still remember how the game used to be about knowing when to use a smash, when to use def, counter, when to WM, bolt tactics and the like. That was when Mabi was truly different from other MMORPGs. The way it is now, it's no longer different.. just as you said.

I would like to see you Solo Sulfur Spider Hard, or Conflict! Elite Hard or Falias, o wait okay yea, scratch Falias, I can do that solo.

I will agree on the tactic though, has anyone ever see the new attack flow diagram since G9? I was discussing it the guild a few weeks back.

Enemy appeared -> use Water Cannon
Enemy use Smash -> use Water Cannon
Enemy use Range Attack -> use Water Cannon
Enemy casting Magic -> use Water Cannon
Enemy has Heavy Stander -> use Water Cannon
Enemy has Mana Reflector -> use Water Cannon
Enemy has Natural Sheild -> use Water Cannon
Enemy use Defense -> use Water Cannon
... You get the idea

[Beepuke]

Get multi'd -> use water cann- wait no...

Assault slash added new dynamics to the game and I'm sure that lances will too. I agree that players are just getting stat whored up, instead of adapting to new battle tactics but.. there's really no other way to make "progress" in a game. You get stronger. Otherwise you get instanced games, like gunbound or starcraft, that rely more on skills and tactics than character development. It's just how Mabinogi was developed I guess...

I still enjoy the game. ;c More and more people are going inactive though, sadly.

[Soluna]

Allow me to show people the wisdom from THE SCHOOL where I was from long ago (and no is not the SRW one).

Get multi'd -> use water cann- wait no...

Assault slash added new dynamics to the game and I'm sure that lances will too. I agree that players are just getting stat whored up, instead of adapting to new battle tactics but.. there's really no other way to make "progress" in a game. You get stronger. Otherwise you get instanced games, like gunbound or starcraft, that rely more on skills and tactics than character development. It's just how Mabinogi was developed I guess...

I still enjoy the game. ;c More and more people are going inactive though, sadly.

This game was not just about combat, majority of the people started the game did not play it because just of the combat skills alone, at least I didn't. I didn't sign up for this game to be grinding in mission for hours for a stupid enchant so I can max out my damage so I can kill the monsters; I got meat shield... I mean friends for that. Unfortunately, the game became like any other MMO combat oriented and everyone know where I would point my finger at so I won't say.

There are many ways to "progress" a character without getting stronger such as cooking to allow you to have more recipe, or potion making to make better potion or music making to have more notes. The problem with such is that these skills gets shut down by the game being "useless" in game aside from the +stats along, which in turn make people getting solely for the stats gain, the once sought fantasy life gave no meaning to these LIFE skills aside from those stats. And in reality progress shouldn't be measured by strength alone.

The new season implementation would seem that it is going back to the life direction now and rewarding life skill with ability to help in combat by giving them tools that would level up its stat not through battle but the life experience itself. This is a could thing, but it is still not completely decoupled (woah...I used that term in computer language) from the combat system, because it really can't be since this game is like I said... a bastardized game...

If you are playing a solely for stats, items, power, or fame, please refer to picture 2, that is where your future will be at. It is wise to play a game, not not do be played by a game or its developer. Weekly rebirth? Pfft who needs that, Free Rebirth is what is all about... The great strength of MMO is that the power are from your peers and not yourself.

[Patchy]

Otherwise you get instanced games, like gunbound or starcraft, that rely more on skills and tactics than character development.

Gunbound yeah!!!! I used to play that quite religiously, back in the early days of Thor's Hammer and World Champion... Good times! Although Gunbound is on a completely differeng paradigm, it does remind me some of its fine points that represent what I don't like about Mabinogi: I like how in Grunbound the "character development" is set in finite milestones (i.e. X item costs exactly Y gold and is always available in the avatar shop; none of that grinding for rare drops shit); and that avatar is only for looks, because everyone knows the balance in avatar stats-off mode is what the game is all about. As for being a game of skills and tactics, afaik the closest Mabinogi came to implement that kind of stuff was the skiing event. In conclusion, there should be more skiing.

This game was not just about combat, majority of the people started the game did not play it because just of the combat skills alone, at least I didn't. I didn't sign up for this game to be grinding in mission for hours for a stupid enchant so I can max out my damage so I can kill the monsters; I got meat shield... I mean friends for that. Unfortunately, the game became like any other MMO combat oriented and everyone know where I would point my finger at so I won't say.

I would go so far to say that all MMORPGs are about the combat. Sure, there are other things to do, as nice side-activities, but mainly you'll be grinding in combat. Your character's development is measured in combat. So once you can no longer enjoy the combat system, it's probably time to stop playing.

[Soluna]

I would go so far to say that all MMORPGs are about the combat. Sure, there are other things to do, as nice side-activities, but mainly you'll be grinding in combat. Your character's development is measured in combat. So once you can no longer enjoy the combat system, it's probably time to stop playing.

-Wall of Text Warning-

Which is why Mabi was different, there was a balance between the two, now there isn't. I never said is not about combat, I don't deny that combat is a part of the game. However I believe it is not all about combat. Achieving a title is a progress of character, achieving a particular skill rank is a progress. Being able to do 10,000 PTJ is an achievement. It is there are no rewards for doing these things, which is driving apart that mixture.

There are definitely skill and tactic involved in Mabi in combat, definitely in the old eon (is been that long). There are still some now, but of course no one knows anything because NA is a pretty poor community where tips/secrets are stayed in and never are given out much (come on, how many people knew about twin leap or remote golem or... yea not gonna say it). Not that I am saying there's no reasons for that. I don't need top gears to do mission, it helps yea, but I don't need them because I can do fine without them as well. Just prof up some sword and upgrade it and I can do fine in most dungeons/missions. And there's no point why Mabi can't be a skill based game, is just people always get the wrong idea about "Skill". Skill games such as Chess is a base game, what it competes with are the player's own skills not the game skill. Mabi can do this in PVP as well but with restriction; there's no reason 2 player with the same equipment with the skill with the stats compete in a PVP in Mabi be called Non-Skill based game. The problem is people don't do that in here, what they are doing is using their fist to hit the other and see who have the bigger fist, and it is usually those who have the most skill and top gear. There's no doubt the community is driven by the flaw of the game itself in that lower level players doesn't get treated like fairly as the other people which result in new blood running thin. Not that is wrong to reward player with higher level because they are probably the paying customers, but things like Mission Level restriction as opposed to free for all Dungeon Pass, there is a BIG difference.

I grind for level before I know what it is like, I got to lvl 100 with the help from event and exp potions within 4hours. I spend endless time in Ciar Dungeon to level 80+ prior to the exp bar being lowered. I tried to grab as many skill as I can have ranking life skills. Then I asked myself what for? For being strong? For showing off? No, that's not the type of person I will become, that's what I told myself. Crash Shot is great? Hail Storm is good? Entrall Performance give dex? Carpentry give dex? Cool you get it, I am not interested in those I don't need that dex, I don't need to have the top damage gear from farming, I am solely playing it because I have love for this game and it is a part of me. I have no desire of anything in the game that I must have, I play simply to have fun. What is it to have fun for me? to Play with you guys in dungeons/mission and watch you or me die helplessly, to run around doing part time jobs while watching anime, to AFK fishing while at School, to play my Pokemans/EO3 while waiting for people to come online, to play Mahjong while at Banquet, or to run around talking to NPCs. Games are about how you play it.

I am not saying is wrong to grind to be the best like no one ever was, but I am saying that is not the ONLY way to play a game. Given that at many times you will find that after you get rank 1 then what? Probably get another rank 1! And they cycle will just repeat itself until you give up or die trying. Remember the times we used to dungeon together in Ciar and tremble at the sights of Golem back in the days? Or shake with fear at the roars of Gargoyles? Yea, I don't either. However, certainly back in the older generation there was a more friendly? atmosphere than that of now. Will the old days ever come back? Nope, it will not. Chances are you probably already have meet some jerks playing the game and hold grudges against them, and the longer you play the more enemies you will make. But that is not to say you can have good time with old/new friends (I have to say though, most of my friend list are filled with people that quit). While sure, certain activity such as doing Field Boss or Secret Mission require you to have certain combat prowess, but not everything need it. If the ONLY thing one can do is either doing combat or doing nothing, I am pretty sure that person is very poor at playing this game.

Back to on the topic of this thread, the old formula are there but the problem is that the people playing are not playing the old formula because there's no incentive on their end. Who'd knew I ran Ciar Dungeon last night then went to Barri then went to Fiodh.

I think Mabi is great game and it does have its flaws, but they are not fatal ones. But what I find is that the community is really poor, although it might be because of the age group thing... hmmm I think this might be the reason... but yea...

TODAY, just now, The Guild Left Hand returned, I was so happy I bought 30days of service because I have been playing without service for a while. Now if only the Guild Right Hand and Other Parts will return to this game *Hint Hint*. And I am sure those of you in the guild already knows, I am not looking for strongest players or bestest players, while sure they can be an asset in mission/dungeon, I value other things much more the so called "Combat Progress". Look at what is formed within the guild now, it is a great inner community, everyone is all so fluffy and cute...okay maybe not all of you, some of you are spiky and razor sharp, while a few is questionable and...oozy... But yea, open arms to you all to drop by and do in game activities with us.

[Armelle]

^this is basically how i see the game,ive never considered progressing important,and usually just played when i felt like it.
however the level restriction do tend to make it very appealing to grind,and whenever i do try to grind,i just start to enjoy it less.
i mean,its not like i dont know by just playing the game most skills and things will progress by themselves.
but that large level difference suddenly imposed just makes you go into the grind mindset sometimes...
heres to hoping tomorrows update makes me have some will to finish up some life skills,what with the whole life skill changes and all.

[Patchy]

Damn it Solar, you have such a positive attitude! It burns!!

I am not saying is wrong to grind to be the best like no one ever was, but I am saying that is not the ONLY way to play a game. Given that at many times you will find that after you get rank 1 then what? Probably get another rank 1! And they cycle will just repeat itself until you give up or die trying.

Yeah, I was like that, and then I gave up. But now I'm reconsidering how else I could've played Mabinogi, besides the perpetual grinding, which was basically all I did until the end. I admit my result-oriented mindset from my competitive gaming backgrounds had me pretty tunnel-visioned on following the obvious goals set by the game itself. It is likely that I don't know how to have fun besides playing a game in the way it was designed to be played.

However, certainly back in the older generation there was a more friendly? atmosphere than that of now. Will the old days ever come back? Nope, it will not. Chances are you probably already have meet some jerks playing the game and hold grudges against them, and the longer you play the more enemies you will make.

You mentioned the community is bad as a particularly bad thing a few times. Yet I have not considered it at all in my list of reasons to not play Mabinogi anymore. It's not a bother for me since I'm used to that crap in Gunbound, where my enjoyment of the game is stained in the blood of all who crossed my path... And back in Mabinogi, I'd just keep my chatbox locked on the guild-chat tab, and I turned off all characters' name display (which subsequently also hides all-chat chat bubbles). And then I proceeded to grinding like I'm playing a single-player game... Yeah, I don't know how to play an MMORPG at all.

I am solely playing it because I have love for this game and it is a part of me. I have no desire of anything in the game that I must have, I play simply to have fun. What is it to have fun for me? to Play with you guys in dungeons/mission and watch you or me die helplessly, to run around doing part time jobs while watching anime, to AFK fishing while at School, to play my Pokemans/EO3 while waiting for people to come online, to play Mahjong while at Banquet, or to run around talking to NPCs. Games are about how you play it.

Hmmm, as for me, some silly fun stuff I have done related to Mabinogi: reprogramming default human/pet AI behavior; attempting (and failling) to implement a Markov chain to formally evaluate the optimal moveset in the jousting mini-game; building papercraft models of Mabinogi characters; haunting the forum of my good old Mabinogi guild; sharing my disgruntledness toward Mabinogi in this lively discussion.

Now, please excuse the going off-topic, but I would like to hear other people's answer to this too: What other extraneous fun things have you done in or about Mabinogi that's not aimed toward some kind of character improvement or leveling-up, but you did them anyway because they amused you in some way?

P.S. The Guild Left Hand, Right Hand, and Other Parts? Is one of them Blaccy?

[Soluna]

XD Ignoring the general public is a problem, because it killed the MMO effect, even though it may seem that would mean the rest of the world is not going to bother you. The fact is that changes the game experience.

And I don't think you fail at it, I just think you are tired of it, even though you created some of the best ideas back then. *Points at How to be Friend of Ferghus and *Dusky'd.

Blaccy is one of them, but he is not the Hand Parts. Dunan is the Right Hand, I will leave the rest for you guys to figure it out who you are. There's Right Eye, Left Eye, Right Brain, Left Brain, Right Ear, Left Ear, Right Leg, Left Leg, Heart, and Body. Every Part has 1 person except Body. Particular Part are set to some of you because of the different value you brought to the guild, mostly that's from your own character that you have shown to me in game. Those are just my opinions and chances are the guild will be a lot different without those specific parts.