"A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

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strych9

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by strych9 »

So basically, it is not worth spending anymore on this game because of the lack of timely response to the exploits, namely the duping of items, the illegitimate leveling from hacks and glitches, and as a result, the diminishing community with only the hackers left.

Since you say you are not questioning Nexon's business model, then really, would you not play (and as a result, spend money on) Mabi again when the above are patched/fixed? Even if the dev team takes a their sweet time to fix the exploits, they will be fixed, as I highly doubt they will leave the current situation like it is until the game is deserted.

The thing about free to play games is that you are not technically paying for something that has tangible real world value, instead you are paying out of trust, in hopes that you will get something that would benefit you, or give you entertainment. You do not own anything, your entire account belongs to Nexon and is (technically) not worth anything at all. Because of that, as long as it is still profitable, they do not necessarily even need to provide a "customer support", it is only a facade that gives minimal support because they know that 1)they are legally unresponsible for any of your demands, 2) the greater majority will just get over their certain issue and continue to pay and play.

The flooding of rare items in the game truely kills alot of the incentive to keep playing, since the large aspect of the game is to acquire items that may take endless amounts of time and effort. I would say in extreme cases such as now, it would be a good decision to have a rollback once the public dupes are eliminated. Although it is true that new exploits are always going to come up, at least they are not public enough to be that significant of an issue, just like how these hacks may have existed for years and yet the game has had smooth periods of (relatively) stable economy.

If you have ever tried "hacking" a game, in other words, using illegitimate means to get things that you want, or power leveling, then you would know that something like that takes the fun out of the game completely. Why would anyone want to grind through computer generated monsters using hacks that don't need the use of a brain at all? Most players do not realize the fact that a large portion of the entertainment comes from doing the actual work itself, and enjoying the reward that comes through the effort they put in. Alot of people seem to think that getting the result in anyway possible is the only thing that matters, when in fact it is the feeling of achievement that really makes that result worthwhile. Just to give an example, when I first learned about the river glitch, back in the days of Ciar Adv grinding, (and I literally lived in that dungeon for quite a significant period of time), I immediately began to complete all my leveling on the river. It felt so gamebreaking, because it was quite easily multiple times faster and more efficient than Ciar Adv, but not even a month after that, I had lost so much interest in the game that I stopped playing for a period of time, because I felt that there was no point to it all, especially looking back at the amount of effort I put in inside Ciar Adv. All the pride that I had in my character was also completely lost because there was no way I could face anyone because I had used those illegitimate means.

One thing I would like to point out that there really is no actual "skillz" involved in playing Mabinogi if you are talking about "that" type of skill. Unless you have some sort of severe nervous system disease, anybody can learn to utilize the combat system within at the most a couple days. There is only one true skill needed in mabi, which is how long you can grind while keeping your sanity.

Aside from extreme server patriots, why would you want to have fun with the entire community? Wouldn't you be trying to have fun with close friends/guilds that you have known for a while? Even with a diminished player base, it would not be hard for someone to find a few decent players that share their views and enjoy the game with.

With regards to who's fault it is, as mentioned, it is human's greed, and since Nexon is human, devCat is human and the players are all human, therefore would it not be everyone's fault? I would think so, to a certain degree, however the one who is the most responsible for what is happening right now is still Nexon. Because they are the ones in charge, because they are the ones that have the ability and responsibility to maintain the game. They choose not to do anything about it, and shut their ears (assuming they even have any) to what is actually happening. Instead of perhaps suffering temporary loss of profits to furthur nurture the game and community, they choose to implement gamebreaking content aimed solely to milk the existing players or seduce new players with shiny gachapon gambling schemes. If you take a look closely, the only players that are taking advantage of the situation are those that do not give a damm about the game itself, and are only interested in the temporary satisfaction from being able to obtain anything they want freely. As I mentioned above, these types of players are going to be gone before you know it, because even they can percieve that obtaining something without earning it is pointless, and they will eventually leave. There is no point to stand out and tell others to buy or not to buy, nobody has enough morality to attempt to force people to sell them items for higher prices, because supply is large, and demand is nowhere near to keeping up. Without a rollback, the effects from such a major exploit as this will probably take quite a longer time to die down, but again, eventually it will.

It is absolutely correct that this is a chance to make millions in gold and items. Even if this is all traceable, there is no way we could expect such a thing to be undertaken by Nexon. The question is what do millions of gold do, in terms of value? Absolutely nothing. Pre-dupe, in-game gold was abundant enough through legitimate means that with few exceptions, none of the in-game items were an issue. Those frantically trying to store the gold will have no use for them besides trading novelty items at hilariously high prices and none of them are necessary for any player to enjoy the game.

I'm sure there are a few M's out there that exist that will blindly believing in Nexon's non-existant ethics and pay money, but in the end, some people still actually manage to find enjoyment out of the game and because of that, they will spend their money. Not because of them being M's but simply because using common sense, they are still enjoying certain aspects of the game, as well as looking forward to future contents that may not necessarily require them to hand over their wallet unless you are aiming for perfectionist.

Yoorah wrote: Looking forward to Mabinogi 2, and hoping devCat has learnt from their mistakes.
The question is, should you be the one to learn from your mistakes or Devcat?
strych9

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by strych9 »

Yuneiko wrote:...
The core of businesses is to make money, and to make money is to not just create customers but hold on to those customers, something that f2p's have to utilize more drastic measures to do so.

I believe the issue at hand has less to do with players not valueing the game enough, and more to do with the grinding/earned reward model of korean mmorpgs. Surely the infinite accumulation of character growth and time/money/effort put in must be tremendously valueable to that player? It is because the players think that they are only there for the result, and by hacking they can essentially cut down or in some cases eliminate the earning part, which is really tempting given the fact that they would have spent hours if not days otherwise? Of course for duping and such they still wouldn't be stopped by the risk of being banned because they will just use alts.

Wouldn't another way to look at what happens when non-free games go free be because they have given up on a stabler revenue model to go after the much more potent micro-transaction? The rage and tech issues may be arising simply because of the failure of the free 2 play model for that particular game, not necessarily because people aren't caring enough, as you mentioned f2p's are an inherantly unsustainable business practice.

I agree with the idea that free does makes things more devalued but in this case, it doesn't seem to be the reason why mabi is in its current state.
Soluna

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by Soluna »

strych9 wrote:So basically, it is not worth spending anymore on this game because of the lack of timely response to the exploits, namely the duping of items, the illegitimate leveling from hacks and glitches, and as a result, the diminishing community with only the hackers left.

Since you say you are not questioning Nexon's business model, then really, would you not play (and as a result, spend money on) Mabi again when the above are patched/fixed? Even if the dev team takes a their sweet time to fix the exploits, they will be fixed, as I highly doubt they will leave the current situation like it is until the game is deserted.
I believe I have stated clearly: In the short answer, I would say no it is not worth playing under the current circumstances and situation.
If the situation do get fixed, which maybe weeks, months, year. Sure, why not play, at the very least it is a safer environment which players can actually enjoy the game features. I never said the game is never worth playing anymore and if anything I think the game is a good experience and would suggest people to play, but not with exploits like this going on.
strych9 wrote: The thing about free to play games is that you are not technically paying for something that has tangible real world value, instead you are paying out of trust, in hopes that you will get something that would benefit you, or give you entertainment. You do not own anything, your entire account belongs to Nexon and is (technically) not worth anything at all. Because of that, as long as it is still profitable, they do not necessarily even need to provide a "customer support", it is only a facade that gives minimal support because they know that 1)they are legally unresponsible for any of your demands, 2) the greater majority will just get over their certain issue and continue to pay and play.
Nothing have tangible value and everything have tangible value. One man's trash is another man treasure. Sure, in game gold has no value at all that why there shouldn't be bots selling in game virtual gold for real world money right? That's why there aren't website site selling in game items for real money right? That's why people never offered USD for Nuadha sets? That's why people hire experienced programmer for their tangible wrinkles instead of the intangible experience (Hmm, some of them doesn't even have wrinkles and have good looks). You are right, they don't have do a thing, just like you don't have to pay, but when a service or product is marketed falsely or disrupted they do have to compensate. These are things like Premium services where you were promised 30 days but their server went down for 3 days. In game hacks and dupes? Nope, that's not something they have to fix, which is exactly why is not worth paying to play because it is a small incentive for them to fix it (However small it maybe).
strych9 wrote: The flooding of rare items in the game truely kills alot of the incentive to keep playing, since the large aspect of the game is to acquire items that may take endless amounts of time and effort. I would say in extreme cases such as now, it would be a good decision to have a rollback once the public dupes are eliminated. Although it is true that new exploits are always going to come up, at least they are not public enough to be that significant of an issue, just like how these hacks may have existed for years and yet the game has had smooth periods of (relatively) stable economy.
Whether to roll back, to wipe gold, to reset the game to day 1, in reality I have no opinion on this matter, whatever that will be done will be done but there will be a group of unhappy people regardless.
strych9 wrote: If you have ever tried "hacking" a game, in other words, using illegitimate means to get things that you want, or power leveling, then you would know that something like that takes the fun out of the game completely. Why would anyone want to grind through computer generated monsters using hacks that don't need the use of a brain at all? Most players do not realize the fact that a large portion of the entertainment comes from doing the actual work itself, and enjoying the reward that comes through the effort they put in. Alot of people seem to think that getting the result in anyway possible is the only thing that matters, when in fact it is the feeling of achievement that really makes that result worthwhile. Just to give an example, when I first learned about the river glitch, back in the days of Ciar Adv grinding, (and I literally lived in that dungeon for quite a significant period of time), I immediately began to complete all my leveling on the river. It felt so gamebreaking, because it was quite easily multiple times faster and more efficient than Ciar Adv, but not even a month after that, I had lost so much interest in the game that I stopped playing for a period of time, because I felt that there was no point to it all, especially looking back at the amount of effort I put in inside Ciar Adv. All the pride that I had in my character was also completely lost because there was no way I could face anyone because I had used those illegitimate means.
When people "Hack", there are many different reasons, please don't treat it as having "endgame stats".
It might be for better enjoyment for things like I dunno SIMON WORLD?

Or the Banshee and the Sheep?
Image
You can say those are just simple pmg mods like those who change clothings or animation it is not real hacking, but it is actually hacking and there is no questioning in this, it is by programming definition that ANY competent programmer would agree. They are slightly different though, in the sense of severity. If I were to describe this, it would be theif vs robbers, which is the best analogy I could come up... they are are both considered wrong and is taking something from another, one by stealing, the other with force and considered to be more severe.

I use to joke about how the situation of Mabinogi usually revolves around the theives whining being robbed by robbers to the cops not listening at the donut shops, but clearly this situation is not such a case.

In addition, hackers can also hack simply to show off their computer skills for recognition, to make fun of authorities of their incompetence, to create confusion and chaos, or whatever reason.

The goal is hacking is not always to have infinite attack boost, to have super high level, although those are certainly some of the goals of hacker's objectives. You may take pride in raising people character "legit", other hackers will gladly take pride in hacking levels and using horns to make the public aware of it. These are personal values which may relate a little bit to Yune's view in that since is a free to play game, players don't always value their characters as much, although surely that's only some explanation because we obviously value our characters that we spent time on despite it being a free to play game and I am sure there are other people as well. That being said, I have paid for my characters, so I am not an ideal example in this situation.
strych9 wrote: One thing I would like to point out that there really is no actual "skillz" involved in playing Mabinogi if you are talking about "that" type of skill. Unless you have some sort of severe nervous system disease, anybody can learn to utilize the combat system within at the most a couple days. There is only one true skill needed in mabi, which is how long you can grind while keeping your sanity.
This is kinda a more of an ehhh issue here. Sure you can argue there are no "skillz", because you don't have to view knowing how to do magic counter, monster lock, or windmill locks, and other methods of controlling the aggros as "skillz", but some some people do think these are techniques to learn to make the combat phase easier, if you don't think they should be called "skillz" you can really disregard it, is mainly addressing to people who refer to these "skillz".
strych9 wrote: Aside from extreme server patriots, why would you want to have fun with the entire community? Wouldn't you be trying to have fun with close friends/guilds that you have known for a while? Even with a diminished player base, it would not be hard for someone to find a few decent players that share their views and enjoy the game with.
I don't think I ever said anything about the entire community, I said the majority of the community. And you are right, you would be trying to have fun with friends and guilds that you have known for a while, which is exactly the point, people are leaving the game from your exact buddy list and guild list you don't have the friends and guilds to play with. Mabination lead by Sky was a decent guild that still exist, but it left Mabi and move on to other games. My own buddy list is more like a death list of all the players that have quited or stopped playing. Not to mention the fact when you think you know some of your friends or guilds but then you found out they started to do illegal activities. Moreover, this entire guild itself has been made up of people I haven't know in any other games, which is the idea of the MMO... meet different people. But when a community brought to this situation how likely are you going to trust someone you meet, I mean sure being a newbie signed in and get a free 5mil check certainly sounds great and all, until you found out it is duplicated money. Then you start to question yourself, are these the type of people I want to meet and play with?
I think this might be because we are in different servers, but finding a decent player in Ruairi might be even harder than finding a GM in game not during an event time.
strych9 wrote: It is absolutely correct that this is a chance to make millions in gold and items. Even if this is all traceable, there is no way we could expect such a thing to be undertaken by Nexon. The question is what do millions of gold do, in terms of value? Absolutely nothing. Pre-dupe, in-game gold was abundant enough through legitimate means that with few exceptions, none of the in-game items were an issue. Those frantically trying to store the gold will have no use for them besides trading novelty items at hilariously high prices and none of them are necessary for any player to enjoy the game.
Now, I am not a prophet or anything so I can't say that those millions of gold will become nothing, but base on the past duping incidents, items will inflat then stabilize, however not at the original values but higher, maybe a small difference, maybe big one. However, you will probably be right, gold will have less value in the future as Ducats will slowly take over. Of course any hypothesis all still depend on the what is being down to the situations, but that's not the point here... is just a plain question that is it worth to pay and play now...
strych9 wrote: I'm sure there are a few M's out there that exist that will blindly believing in Nexon's non-existant ethics and pay money, but in the end, some people still actually manage to find enjoyment out of the game and because of that, they will spend their money. Not because of them being M's but simply because using common sense, they are still enjoying certain aspects of the game, as well as looking forward to future contents that may not necessarily require them to hand over their wallet unless you are aiming for perfectionist.
By definition, M don't have common sense... because they take pain and punishment as an enjoyment, unless of course... taking pain and punishment as enjoyment is the norm nowadays...which might not surprise me.

Speaking honestly though putting all that effort in obtain things like refine rank 1, tailor rank 1, weaving rank 1, potion master, herb master, windmill master, etc... If I were to look back, I would say I would never have imagined how I managed to complete those trainings... and pretty amazed at it. But... At the same time, does it really mean anything? Probably most likely not, I am certain my family won't care, and if they don't I don't think anyone should... Ever have that awesome feeling getting something rare from the gachapon? The suddenly just realize that is just an item and eventually you would sell it or stash it and collect dust. But hey, players play for different reasons, this just a advise for play not to spend when exploits like this are happening. Whether it does change players or not is not important, the important thing is to get players thinking what should be the right actions to take.
Kenero

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by Kenero »

It seems the recent events are just to take the player's minds off the hacking as some sort of golden veiner in hopes they can solve it while keeping player commotions low.
Lyrrad

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by Lyrrad »

That video comes back time after time after time. :l
Yuneiko

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by Yuneiko »

You'll NEVER live it down!
Soluna

Re: "A Word" from the Players to the Mabinogi Team

Post by Soluna »

Not to make anyone feel bad or anything, TW server have this bug yesterday as well.

However, they have sent out emails to player who sent complains that players duplicating and buying duplicated items will be banned innocent or not. Which in turn makes the player telling other players not to do transactions in game, then they have the offical statement up. And now they have taken down the server for maintenance without a back up time, which clearly is sending S.O.S to the devCat. This was done in 1 day within the bug's release...

I dunno, I am not gonna say Gamania is the best company, because they are pretty horrible as well: putting limited pets in gachapons. But I think is clear at the very least they have some common sense.
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